[firetried41]

The groundless fear that the loving, forgiving Lord frowns on us is like an oppressive fog. It saps us of enthusiasm and undermines the wonderful things our loving Lord longs to do in our lives. Contrast this with the assurance that the King of all kings is thrilled with you; that there is a real sense in which you are the center of his universe and that he is selflessly devoted to maximizing your eternal happiness. A glimpse of God’s eternal love for you will spur you to victory in every area of your life. Your faith will soar and you’ll be inspired to mind-boggling heights of achievement.

Love Beyond Your Wildest Dreams

[elgrizzle]

I feel fine, I have been given so many talents that far outweigh any amount of odor.

[mpdela]

I believe that God is not mean but instead has given us the wonderful gift of 'FREE WILL'. People who live in or come from a government that deprives its citizens of freedom truly appreciate the gift of free will more than others. In this freedom, there are some who choose good and others choose evil. Then, we also have all the countless other options between absolute good and absolute evil to choose from as well. How people with physical/mental challenges are treated by others is only a manifestation of the consequences of free will.

This 'blue' planet earth in which we live, is another beautiful gift full of life from microbial to higher intelligent life, each struggling for its existence. I never tire of traveling to places where I can overdose in its natural beauty and observing the interactions amongst all living creatures - some good and some bad. I remember as a college student in the 70s, how the environment became such a 'new' hot topic, but it was not until recently that 'green' became the politically correct concept as more people began to make better choices for whatever reason.

Whether we are talking about free will or natural life, there is such potential for good and evil and everything in between. Do these gifts stop being beautiful with their intrinsic struggles?

María

[scientist42]

Imagine a world where everyone is perfect because god made them that way, both in physical and in mental health. Imagine god creates a world of plenty where there is no poverty or crime. A world of no stresses, no tensions, no worries at all in life. Imagine a world where your every whim was instantly granted under divine intervention. If you got a zit on your face or a bit too much wind, well you could just pray to god and it would be instantly cured!

Sounds too sterile doesn't it? That's not a life worth living! Life is about facing and overcoming challenges, about adversity and surmounting the obstacles. If god makes our lives perfect then what is there to aspire towards in life? We get our drive through the challenges in life.

Sure, it looks like god has been REALLY mean to us. But what about the little boy with epilepsy, what about the guy lying in the hospital bed after having broken his neck in a motorcycle accident. What about the father of three who lost his job and had the family home reposessed. What about the wife caught up in a loveless marraige and she's just staying with him so the kids have got a dad.

All human suffering is relative, we spend so much time looking inside ourselves that we don't notice that everyone suffers something in some form or another.

I thank god for being able to walk this beautiful earth without fear, for a roof over my head, for the beauty of Spring, for the mountains, the forests, the rivers and the birds singing in the trees.

[vilenin89]

Or imagine a world with a celestial despot observering your every move. Watching and letting men, women and children die by preventable things like starvation or diarrhea. Letting rapes, genocide and infant mortality happen. Sounds a lot more depressing than believing that there isn't a force higher than human agency on the planet. Also a lot more liberating knowing that the social forces that humanity have created can be changed and our civilization can be furthered enlightened through conscious human activity.

[mpdela]

This question brings to mind an experience I had this past Spring in Yellowstone National Park as we observed the wild animals. There was an injured female Moose with her calf (see pictures below), who apparently had been attacked in previous nights by another wild animal. Her calf just kept walking around her, but she couldn’t stand up to care for it. From where I was standing, there were many photographers, who had been there for a couple of days from well renowned nature magazines and movie makers with their cameras and lenses worth thousands of dollars, just standing by to capture what was doomed to happen. I bet they could photograph very well at night with those things.

I was upset at hearing the calf cry out over and over again in despair and the mother Moose just looking at it helplessly, so I asked a Park Ranger if a vet would soon tend to the mother’s wounds so that she could take care of her young. His reply was that it is the parks policy not to interfere with nature based on the premise that nature would take care of itself, so they were planning on just letting this situation take its course. It was only a matter of time for other animals to come and not only kill and eat the injured mother (after all they must eat to survive), but the innocent calf, who was very hungry by then was also doomed as well.

I wonder how the moose and her calf felt about this and how they processed looking at us in their minds as they could see us humans just standing there watching day in and day out 24/7 taking no action at all.

María

[vilenin89]

It must have been sad to see, but that's nature. Human consciousness is something unique, though. It's what sets our species apart from nature. I may not believe in the divine, but there is something of almost metaphysical beauty of the miracle of life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an "antithesis". I don't believe in god or religion, but I understand completely the allure of the mystical, the comfort people find in it and the instances where religious institutions have served the interest of humanity. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs as long as they don't impugn the dignity of others.

As a whole though my view of religion is this:

1. Religion misrepresents the origins of humankind and the cosmos;
2. Religion demands unreasonable suppression of human nature;
3. Religion inclines people to violence and blind submission to authority; and
4. Religion expresses hostility to free inquiry.

If we look at the more "humane" and affluent societies--- like Western Europe during the 2nd half of the 20th century with their social safety net and relative freedom-- we see high rates of atheism. I imagine that if we lived in a safe, more humane world that democratically empowers individuals (in their workplace, communities, etc), has plurality of thought and relative equality between the genders, though the human impulse to find comfort in the divine won't go away we'll see a lot less of it.

I'll admit that some of the most beautiful turns of phrase I've ever read come from the Bible:

"I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."

(talk about a fitting quote for many of our lives!)

To think of this as purely a work of man and man alone and not the divine or something infallible only adds to its beauty and majesty in my mind.

[mpdela]

vilenin89,

Thanks for your beautiful presentation of your ideas. I love the way you do that. I love stimulating conversations like yours that are not filled with hatred and anger. We may or may not agree AND IT'S OK! I love exploring concepts with love and respect toward all involved. Thank you for that.

When I get a chance, maybe you and I can have some good exchanges of ideas in a loving and respectful way. How intellectually stimulating it would be.

María

[Hartwig]

to the op:

Do you think God is mean?

No not really, my faith aside, my observation of life and reality strongly suggest that God (assuming he does exist in something like the form traditional monotheism suggests) does not interfere with, influence, or in anyway interact with physical reality or the human condition in any perceptible way. Now that, arguably, means that from a human point of view there is no difference between God existing or god not existing - at least in this life. And given that perspective you can't really assign anthropocentric qualities such as "meanness" to what is essentially an inert abstract.
However I don't necessarily believe God is irrelevant or non-existent, there is, from my point of view, ample reason to believe in the existence of God as more than just a concept and similarly good reason why God is very relevant and important to humanity. its just that I evaluate Him as separate from the cause and effect of daily life. Why God would choose to proceed in this way I don't know, and I couldn't even begin to fathom a "big picture" method or plan, I just accept what I see plainly before me.

As for if I feel hard done by or envious of others with fewer problems... perhaps a tiny bit, I don't think I could be entirely human without these base feelings but on the whole I generally feel content. At the end of the day I live comfortably in a wealthy nation, I have a job, a place to stay, good friends and family, and I'm in tolerable good health. When I compare this to people with serious diseases or who live in poverty in third world conditions, or who are subject to violence in unstable states; then I can't help but feel exceeding blessed and profoundly grateful for my tremendous good luck to be one of the few lucky ones. really I can endure almost any relative hardship with this philosophy in mind, as it always is.

[Nata_80]

It´s hard to believe a god (let´s say as Catholicism defines it) exists...

A child dies every 3 second from starvation
1,100 million people live with less than a dollar/a day
10 million children die before they reach 5 years of age
10% of the world´s population owns 70% of the world´s wealth
(UN statistics)

Not to mention about diseases statistics...

Why a God that is all-powerful, who was able to send his son to the Earth (planet which has the size of a sand grain in comparison with the whole universe) is not able to step in and prevent so much injustice... or even better, why did God create such an unfair and imperfect world?

Religion/ Church has always opposed science, progress, reasoning. Just take a look to what happened to scientists as Galileo... how they are opposing now the use of contraceptive methods in the 3rd world where AIDS is a major problem.

If it was for religion we would still be living like in the Middle ages... It´s science and human intelligence what has improved the quality of many people in this world.

From my point of view a God may exist, but in the form a physic power which created the universe and hence our planet... but who is to say that we as humans are to understand such a mistery...

[manny_calavera]

Originally Posted by firetried41

The groundless fear that the loving, forgiving Lord frowns on us is like an oppressive fog. It saps us of enthusiasm and undermines the wonderful things our loving Lord longs to do in our lives. Contrast this with the assurance that the King of all kings is thrilled with you; that there is a real sense in which you are the center of his universe and that he is selflessly devoted to maximizing your eternal happiness. A glimpse of God’s eternal love for you will spur you to victory in every area of your life. Your faith will soar and you’ll be inspired to mind-boggling heights of achievement.

Love Beyond Your Wildest Dreams

Who said He wants us to be as happy as we can be?

Joel Osteen is a big thief.

[manny_calavera]

"I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."

Isn't this from Ecclesiastes?

This is the same book where Solomon shows his doubts about God!