[scientist42]

This was the city of Angels and my angel smiled at me from the other side of the street with a rather naughty expression. Massage sir?

I struck up a conversation. Her English was great, pretty good anyway for a Thai girl. She was 28, very pretty and slim and tastier than Tom Yum Seafood Soup, but the main thing is she could understand me!

I had been to the Philippines because their English was even better but they usually don't offer massage, and want to spend the night with you - not really what I came all this way for!

In any case, almost any form of carnal pleasure here is akin to injecting yourself with cyanide (the incidence of HIV is around 80% in some parts of Thailand).

I had returned to Thailand from Manila accepting that I will need to look around for a girl who could understand me and was willing to help.

What sort of massage would you like sir? She showed me a list with loads of prices and loads of different options. I chose the Thai massage as this cost 250 Bahts (7 USD) per hour and was the cheapest option.

Okay, for any of you who haven't experienced a proper Thai massage, it involves a lot of bending and stretching and strong compression of the limbs. The Bangkok girls do the best massage in Thailand and their reputation precedes them.

Ouch I yelled with a pained expression, can we just talk for a while? She looked at me with a quizzical look - you want to talk? Yes, if that's alright, I replied.

We got onto the subject rather slowly. Do you smell that? I asked her. What? she replied. There's a smell coming from my body but I can't figure out where it's coming from, can you have a look? Okay so she sniffed here and there - money can buy all sorts of things in this world! Smile

No, it's not coming from your breath! Are you sure I replied? Yes, positive! It's not coming from your back or your groin or your head or anywhere but your arm pits. They smell like old socks. Are you sure they don't smell like onions or rotten vegetables or even poo I asked?

Yes, I'm sure. They smell like old socks but even more unpleasant. Hey, flattery will get you nowhere I replied. She got my humor and smiled. I explained to her that I actually can't smell my own odor and that is why I am visiting her all the way from England.

Are you serious? she asked. Absolutely, I replied. I am a scientist and science is all about observation and measurement but I am seriously handicapped by my inability to smell myself.

Won't other people in England tell you, she quizzed. I told her it is like getting water out of a stone. Acknowledging people smell is regarded as some kind of supreme insult and nobody will ever do that to help you unless they are your worst enemy, I said.

Well I have told you, she said. Bless you I said, and hugged her twice. I wanted to pay her extra for her help but she wouldn't accept my money, can you believe that?!

Okay guys, I have achieved what I came here for. I have asked numerous people (massage girls). The odour is now only coming from my arm pits and gets worse as the day progresses. Infact, after I had traveled in the hot sunshine for 12 hours without a wash some people were holding their noses!

However, when I am in an air-conditioned room even a few hours after showering I have been told that 'It's really not so bad, many people have it far worse!'

Guys, I used to have the most unbelievable fecal breath and body odor and the breath odor has obviously completely gone. I attribute this to the use of a stainless steel tongue scraper which I use each morning and at night for the past 6-12 months. This is followed by rinsing my mouth with Diet Coke (or the equivalent).

Why diet coke? Well, you can't drink tap water here for hygiene reasons so I brushed my teeth with toothpaste and rinsed with Diet Coke as that was all I had in the fridge!

Guys, I really don't want you all going out and buying Diet Coke to rinse your mouth after scraping your tongue each morning. Can we just agree that those of you with halitosis will look into the use of stainless steel tongue scrapers.

I feel this helped me the most. I feel chewable vitamin C tablets (ascorbic acid) will achieve the same effect as Diet Coke anyway (acidic pH) and my interim recommendation is to scrape the tongue thoroughly with a stainless steel tongue scraper and then chew a chewable 500mg Vitamin C tablet, in the morning and at night.

I'm afraid I really can't provide any good explanation for why my underarm odor is no longer fecal however I have asked many people now and they all say the same thing.

I am eating and drinking everything, same as before so all I can think is that daily removal of the tongue plaque (followed by acidification of the tongue) has some how done the trick.

Perhaps the tongue plaque, if left unscraped will get swallowed and contribute to the underarm odor. That's just a hypothesis but, to be honest, I really don't know for sure.
Arun

[scientist42]

SUCCESS - Some feedback about my odours

Guys,
I have just been succesful in getting some feedback from a Thai lady about my various odours (I can never smell any of these).

I have seen her 3 times and we have made some useful findings:-

1 My strongest odour is from the underarms (She gave it an odour score of 10 out of 10!) and it definitely smells faecal
2 The groin area (scores 4-5) is jointly (together with the breath and feet) the second smelliest
3 Much to my surprise, I have strong foot odour (odour score 4-5) which smells of old socks although I can't smell it!
4 My breath (odour score 4-5) can sometimes be urinous (!) although she had difficulty describing the exact odour. In the past I have often heard comments about my breath being faecal.
5 If I scrape the tongue coating (with a stainless steel scraper) immediately before she smells the breath and if I also gargle with Coca Cola Zero (acidic) the breath odour completely vanishes! (odour score 0) for at least 10 minutes
6 My breath odour shows huge daily variation (scores vary anywhere from 0 up to 5 with use of tongue scraping and dietary variation). Many people have been completely unable to detect my breath odour at times but could detect my underarm odour strongly!
7 If I am not moving (eg when asleep) the breath odour will permeate the scalp thus making it smell strongly (odour score 7).
8 Washing the whole body with one type of shampoo temporarily eliminated the odour everywhere (score 0) although the underarms score only dropped from 10 to 5 (this part of the body remained smelly even after showering with this particular shampoo!)
9 Using a different shampoo instead changed the underarm odour score from 10 to 0! thus indicating that choice of shampoo brand is extremely important (I don't know the name as the label is all in Thai!)
10 My flip-flops had a very stong odour which was eliminated by rubbing shampoo on them then rinsing
11 The underarm of my teashirt and my shorts all smelled strongly after wearing them for less than one day and she told me to change them. My pillow acquired a smell which was dependent on the time I slept on it. The towels I used to dry my body after having a shower all smelled of my underarm odour after just one use!
11 Some after-shaves made my underarm odour much more pleasant when smelled straight after applying however there was a slight loss to this masking effect after as little as 10-15 minutes. I don't know yet how the quality of this masked odour changes with time, some sufferers say aftershaves and perfumes should not be applied to the body but sprayed on clothing instead
12 Eating lamb or drinking a lot of beer made my odour the worst

Okay, now it's your turn guys, tell me about your experiences! Also, if you can't detect your own odour have you ever considered paying someone for this feedback?
Arun

[gettinbysometimes]

Hi Arun,
I have fecal odor also. I can usually smell it (90% of time). It does not stink up my cloths at all, no residue. Just regular stink from underarms. I do not know where exactly it is coming from. I feel that maybe it is coming from my back,head or shoulders area. I have no solid proof though. IT is not a constant odor. IT usually comes in explosive occurances (stink bomb). Rotten egg smell to just regular poo (if there is such a thing). Sometimes it oozes out of me slowly but not the usual case. I have stop spraying fragrances directly on my body, just cloths now. I have avoided all table sugar and any food item that has added sugar, corn syrup, sweetner, ect. Also avoiding most red meats, all cold cuts, alcoholic products, vinager, and yeast. Dairy products are way down. Only few cheeses and yogurt(plain) is almost nonexistant. I drink nonsweetened soymilk. I have been doing this for the last 1.5 months. My odor explosions and intensity have diminished considerably except for the last couple days (pulling my hair out). I have introduced some new foods into diet this past week and this might be my problem. My wife does not smell anything on me and again it is not always there. My young children on the other hand have commented. No, I have not asked my Dr about this and she has never brought it up. I am in healthcare field and have interaction within my community so I try to keep this under wraps as much as possible. Have I ever paid anyone to smell me? No......but it is not a bad idea. I have not tried any specific shampoos to see if one correlates with odor. I have recently kept journal to track my general progress. This is big step for me, I am not organized as much as other people but I am getting better. My breath has gotten much better now that I am eating healthier. I have the occassional days of yuck in my mouth but I would say there is probably a 85% improvent.

[scientist42]

Gettingbysometimes,
Congratulations on your recent success in reducing your odour.

Thankyou for your valuable feedback. I am beginning to think that my breath odour is coming out in explosive occurances too(stink bomb). This is because sometimes there is no smell at all and at other times it is very strong! (no in between). In contrast, my body odour generally increases gradually as the day progresses, especially if I have been out in the sunshine.

Do you avoid white meat cold-cuts too? Also, how did you know which foods/ drinks to avoid? Did someone tell you?
Do you think your children could give you regular feedback or do you think this could be awkward?

Gettingbysometimes, do you think it would be useful for us to introduce to this site a personal diary (like yours) where every member can describe their daily odour variation and what foods/drinks may have caused it? Would you be prepared to share your diary/ journal with us?
Arun

[gettinbysometimes]

At this point in time I am avoiding all cold cut products. I came across another body odor web site where this individual posted his diet. Can I post this??? I have been modifying this since I started a month and a half ago.They are still small and at this point i do not want to let them know about my problem. If something stinks they don't hold back so i will get feedback regardless I have no problem sharing what I have so far regarding diet and my journal. I think it would be a great idea to compare notes. A section that was labeled Journal or Log, ect. Thanks for getting back to me. I am here to help us.

[hope4us]

Hello Arun,
I hope all is well with you and that you are still having a great time. I am sure that you are experiencing some beautiful things as you travel so extensively.


Glenna

[scientist42]

GettingbySometimes,
Yes, please do post the diet together with your modifications/ improvements. We will create a dedicated Diary/Journal section later.
Arun

[scientist42]

Hi Glenna,
Yes Thailand has been very kind to me. I have got the odour feedback I very much needed (I can't smell my own odours) and have managed to largely control my odour thanks to some expert masseuses.

I have also been to some beautiful islands, bathed in waterfalls and giant natural jacuzzis infused with hot springs.

Now I am in a mountainous part of Thailand called Chiang Mai, it is great for safaris and treks.
Thai people are polite and give attention to detail/ presentation. I would come back here to live if I could.
Arun

[gettinbysometimes]

Arun,
I will post this in diet section and journal in general section.

[nycegirlx]

Hi gettinbysometimes, Arun and others,

You mentioned that you had a fecal odor coming from your underarms but didn't understand where it was coming from. About two years ago in November 2007 (before the whole metronidazole fiasco), I also noticed a fecal odor and the smell of beans coming from my left underarm. I was so surprised. I had eaten beans recently. I also noticed an infection elsewhere on my body and went to the ER because I was scared it might be flesh-eating bacteria or something serious. It was diagnosed as an intertrigal (in-between-skin) infection. The PA and doctor really didn't offer anything for that. However, the PA did say I had lymphadenopathy or swelling in my lymph nodes around my underarm and a low-grade fever. So maybe the lymph nodes are carrying the fecal/food underarm odor? The lymph nodes are supposed to be the body's drainage and waste removal system. I heard that in females, wearing bras and bras with underwires can constrict the area where the lymph nodes are supposed to remove toxins and impurities. The doctor on the radioshow suggested wearing sportsbras as they extend farther down and avoid some of that area around the ribcage. (Underwire bras are also supposed to leak nickel which damages the body. Something to think about.) Thanks for the posts. They are very informative and helps me understand my own odors better.

I will try the stainless steel tongue scraper and Vitamin C (or diet Coke). Someone on another site mentioned that old-fashioned Brute cologne helps mask his odor for a short term. I wonder what shampoos Arun used and why they helped. Were they perfumed or unscented? I thought perfume was bad for us...I guess people shouldn't generalize based on their own experiences or the experiences of a few people with B.O. and halitosis.

I have also noticed a "stink bomb" effect on myself and my mother and another person with malodors. It's like the body is detonating bursts of gas and it smells up the environment.

My problem started with scalp odor I couldn't notice, bad breath and it progressed to all kinds of body odor, mainly "gas" and fecal odor coming from my digestive system. I have noticed foot odor in the past back in 2004 when I had some sort of sytemic and gastrointestinal infection and my underlying hormone disorder was acting up. It was then that I first noticed a foul odor akin to that of "fresh poop" (an expression in my native language). I have noticed this odor in one of my siblings, coming from her breath and, I am pretty sure, from her body too although she denies the later and, it seems like, any odor problems. In 2008, I was surprised when a hospital employee said, "It smells like underarms in here," while I was waiting in the hallway inside the clinic. Months later, I had a store employee pick up a can of ArridX spray while dealing with me. Until then, I wouldn't have thought that I had a problem with underam odor. This goes to show how much we don't know, esp. if we can't always smell ourselves (or at all for many individuals with malodors). Of course, I have noticed episodes of hyperhidrosis when my underlying hormone disorder acts up and I have symtoms similar to hyperthryoidism. I am sure this makes me smell like sweat and worse as the increased sweating leads to more pronounced body odors. This is one reason I smell worse in summer and why I tend to smell a poopy smell for hours after bowel movements more often in the summer than at other times of the year. Somebody mentioned sweat and bacteria and I think that's a good theory. Sweat and fungus would produce a similar effect.

I would pay someone to stay with me and go around with me and see if they can detect not only my various and varying odors but also, others people's reactions and comments to my being around. Recently, a girl I know from a health group mentioned something about another member saying something about eating a lot of fish so I am wondering if they also have smelled a fish odor from me. I was thinking of asking her. BUT, the funny (okay, not really funny) thing is I have smelled gas odors from her and think she has a problem with gas after eating. I was with her at a holiday party where everybody had pizza. Then I smelled a poopy gas-odor and hoped it wasn't me and really didn't think it was me. Later, she wasn't around but I smelled that smell again. There was a guy around and I did smell a bad sweat and gassy-foody smell from him in the past when he was sitting next to me in a conference room. Another guy rubbed his nose. I wanted tell him and everyone, "It smells but it's not me!" The third time I smelled this odor was when I was downstairs with that girl and another guy. I mentioned that it smelled and the guy said that the garbage area upstairs smelled. When we were at a cafe, I couldn't smell that odor anymore. It's important to note that we were in different buildings and that girl was still with me.

change of mind

[scientist42]

Hi Nycegirlx,
In theory, systemic body odour can be carried around not only by blood but also by lymph since this is the other fluid circulation throughout the body. Constricting the flow of lymph can result in swelling of the regional lymph nodes eg under the arm. Other infections can also do this.

Unfortunately, I can not now remember the name of the shampoo that helped me. Whilst fragaranced shampoos might be bad for some of us, some might also be alright for some of us.

I also exhibit a stink bomb-like effect when I consume certaib foods especially alcohol.

I also have a poopy smell for some time after a bowel movement. Other people using the toilet are aghast at the odour in the toilet, do other members notice this too?

Nycegirlx, do you think those intermittent odours were coming from you? Some of us can detect ourselves, many can not.
Arun

[elgrizzle]

Very interesting Arun! Good work!

I also notice an explosion type effect from alcohol. It smells a lot like a fart. Just recently I decided to have 1 beer, because I felt like my odor was low and I might be able to handle just one. Well, the next day, low and behold I noticed odor. I went to the gym with my friend, and I was playing basketball while she was getting changed. I could very well smell that explosive gas type of odor coming from me. I wasn't farting, and my farts smell different (not nearly as bad). So, as she came into the gym she said, it smells in here. I just looked at her and smiled. I don't know how to bring it up yet, there is so much fear.

It was funny because she txts me a lot and says that she smells people on the bus. For example, she was sitting beside a chinese lady and said she smelt like poop. I told her that a lot of people smell like that, and I said hell even I smell like that sometimes. She just laughed, probably thinking I was just joking. Its hard for people to talk about this, because they probably know its not a problem that can be easily controlled. I will try my best to keep discussing this with her, so that she can help me.

I was also standing outside waiting for a bus, and a chinese girl was standing there. I could smell that explosive gas coming right from her as she walked right by me. I was then on the bus, and noticed that when I went to where she was I could smell it. She was very clean, and well dressed looking. It smelt quite different from a fart, as I have noticed from myself. Almost certain it was coming from her breath from her nose. A very similar smell to what I notice coming from myself, but even stronger.

Another food that I notices causes this problem, but less severe than alcohol is whole wheat pasta, and possibly the beef that is with it. I noticed a lot of trapped gas in the stomach, and also, this odor, but less intense.

I can smell when I have underarm odor, but it is normal. For example, if I dont shower for a few days I can notice a regular B.O. And infact I have a roomate who has a B.O. problem. His underarms smell very strong. I find it hard to tell him, but he does know.

I have had occasions where I put on some cologne, and even a few hours later a girl will hug me and say "you smell good". So it is definitely not an underarm/body odor issue for me. I believe that it is explosive gas coming from he intestines out through the lungs that happen only at certain times.

It could very well be a hyper-permeability of the intestines letting too many odors through. Alcohol causes hyper-permeability. Or perhaps an unusual movement of the intestines.

[mpdela]

Hi elgrizzle,

I love reading your posts because you describe everything so well. As you describe things, I can very easily visualize it, and almost smell what you are describing. It's so true about the variety of odors and that they are intermittent.

I can also relate to the moments that you sort of 'freeze up' and can't talk about you own odor to others, even with friends. I bet your friend doesn't know how to talk to you about it either if she did happen to smell anything at any time. I would think that if she did smell the other person's fecal odor, she is sensitive to that particular scent, so she would also be smelling yours when it kicks in. Yet, she doesn't know how to talk to you about it, just as you don't know how to talk to your roommate about his underarm odor.

I believe that we should talk about it to whomever we want at whatever time we want, and to not talk about it when we don't feel like it. Our lives shouldn't pressure us to HAVE TO talk about our odor everywhere we go as an obligation. At the same time, I question my 'falling victim to' the social mores that say that 'BO IS BAD AND SHAMEFUL'. I would like to feel free enough to talk about my odor or just BO in general as carefree as I would about anything else. It's a process to accomplish this 'freedom' to do so, but I find that some of us in this community have managed to do so better than others. It's a goal I have set for myself - not so much to put pressure on myself to talk about it, but rather to be carefree whenever I decide to do so.

María

[vilenin89]

ElGrizzle's story sounds a bit like mine, but then again... I also have this hydrosis of the buttock area that might be causing some 2ndary odor. I'm pretty sure that's a red-herring and I've noticed the "gas explosions" too. I always wonder am I just picking up momentarily on my odor or does it come and go?

I'm seeing a new doctor on Tuesday. I tend to get a bit more out of these people than some other members for whatever reason so I'll keep everyone updated. This is making me quite miserable the moment, especially since I'm pretty sure a girl who liked me and I find attractive (somewhat insufferable in other respects) might go out with one of my friends this weekend. Yeah it's petty, but it's just symptomatic of the fact that I feel like I'm living a bit of a psuedo-life and dealing with a problem that I don't understand with a maddening degree of subjectivity / intermittentness, while everyone else gets to enjoy themselves. Not that I want other people to wallow in my misery, but i'd be nice to be enjoying my time too

The thing is some people seem offended ALL the time and some people basically never notice. I need to sort through all the objective feedback i've gotten and my own observation and come up with a concise set of coherent thoughts for this new doctor.